Reviews »
Avid Juicy 7 disc brake review
In the brake world, Avid has an incredible history and a reputation for developing great products. You can’t go wrong with any of the Avid v-brakes, and their mechanical disc brakes are the standard in the industry. However, up until a couple of years ago, Avid didn’t have a hydraulic disc brake and the company had people waiting for those hydraulic discs to come out. Well, the wait is over and, I must say, it was worth it.
I’ve had an aversion to discs since a bad experience with set from the early years. However, my new full suspension was disc only so I figured it was time to go try them again. Originally, I went with the weight weenie choice of the Marta SL but eventually switched to the Juicy 7 for several reasons, and I’ll talk about each of these in this review.
The terrain around here (Virginia) pretty much dictates that the riding is mostly cross country, even though it is technical, aggressive xc riding. There are lots of rocks, roots, and steep hills, with nasty wet conditions thrown into the mix. That being said, the downhill sections of our trails probably aren’t enough to tax disc brakes from an overheating perspective and, because of the fact that I am a lightweight, I don’t think I pushed these brakes anywhere near their limits.
SRAM purchased Avid a little while ago making for a potent combination. While writing this review, I spoke with Eric Schutt, SRAM’s MTB PR Manager about the Juicy 7 and will share some of SRAM’s responses.
Product Specifications
This review looks at the 2005 model of Avid’s Juicy 7 hydraulic disc brake. The rotors are 6” in diameter and are polygon shaped.
Weights from weight weenies are:
- Front. 424g. Complete front, 160 mm rotor, stock hose length, w/ IS adapter.
- Back. 445g. Compete rear, 160 mm rotor, stock hose length, w/ IS adapter)
MSRP: $250 but you can usually find them for $150 or less.
Manufacturer website: Avid website
The Good
There is a lot to like about these brakes, there are so many positive features that I opted for the Juicys over brakes that weighed significantly less.
Setup/installation
NO SHIMS! The Avid tri-Align caliper position system (CPS) allows you to set the caliper position without the need for shims. The instructions say that you can keep the caliper loose, hold the lever down and then tighten the caliper down. It is probably better to visually or with feeler gauges set the caliper position that to just rely on the CPS system. The rotor can spin freely sometimes even if the caliper is askew which could lead to poor performance.
On other disc brakes system that I’ve used required me to reshim, usually after I’d removed the wheels. With these brakes, I can quickly reset the caliper if the wheel position has changed slightly.
Post mount installation
For Manitou fork users, the front brakes go right on. Good if you have Manitou post mounts users like me, but if you have an IS front mount you will need an adapter.
Contact Point Adjustability
Until recently the Avid Juicy 7 was the only disc brake that had the ability to adjust the position of the lever at which the pads make contact. I cannot stress enough how important this feature is, and how much I LOVE this capability. My hands are small and not very strong. If the levers are too far outboard when they make contact with the pads my hands hurt and I can’t pull the levers with as much force compared to a closer engagement point.
The levers on the Marta SLs engaged the pad much farther outboard than I preferred, and my hands hurt on the downhills. One of the main reasons for choosing disc brakes over v-brakes is to keep your hands from hurting as much. With the lever adjustment capabilities of the Juicy 7, I can adjust on-the-fly where the lever engagement point is and easily match this point on both levers. When it comes to brakes I’m quite finicky, and this feature was one of the main factors that helped me choose these brakes.
Modulation and feel
The modulation of the Juicy 7s is spectacular. Years of using cantilever and V-brakes really spoiled me in terms of the kind of lever feel I like. I prefer it when the pad makes contact and then there is that additional bit of spongy travel before full lockup. The Juicy 7s offer a feeling that is very close to that of v-brakes and is unlike most other disc brakes systems (that are either off or on). I am able to literally ride a front wheelie for a little distance due to the amazing modulation and feathering capability of the brake. The switch to discs has required very little time to get comfortable due to how well the brakes modulate. I’ve never felt like the brakes have caused me to go over the bars as I’ve felt with other disc brakes that are more on-off.
I don’t know the physics behind the Juicy 7 pivot placement (or the ‘x-factor’, as Avid calls it). Whatever it is, it works, because the feel of these brakes is top notch. I can definitely tell a difference in the lever pull when comparing these brakes to other manufacturers.
Index reach adjustment
The reach adjustment screw is indexed so it holds the position under vibration. The range of reach adjustment is very good for providing suitable reach for small hands.
Power
I’ve been able to go to one-finger braking since switching to these discs. The rear locks up easily and it’s a good thing they have such good modulation otherwise I’d be fishtailing all over.
Pad strength
The stock pads are actually very good on the Juicy 7s. I’d heard that Galfer pads were the better so I tried them and didn’t find them to be that much more effective than the Juicy 7 stock pads.
The fit with trigger shifters
The shape of the Juicy brake body is designed to fit extremely well with the Sram trigger shifters. When I tried some triggers I liked how they just slid into place with the lever.
Lever shape
Lever shape is a personal thing, but I really like the feel of the J7’s lever. The Marta has a more square profile that I didn’t care for. The J7 has a rounded profile that just feels right on the underside of the index finger.
Ambidextrous levers
I haven’t felt the need to swap my levers around, but it is nice to know that the option exists to do it easily.
Bleeding
With any disc brake purchase, I suggest getting a bleed kit to go with it. The bleed kit comes with two syringes making it a simple and clean. The instructions are fairly straight forward and here are some alternative instructions at Pinkbike.
Technical Manuals
Avid/Sram have done a great job providing documentation on the brakes. You can download technical manuals that include overhaul instructions for the caliper and lever as well as bleeding instructions. The documents are well written with lots of pictures. Kudos to Avid for providing information for those work on their own stuff.
Customer Support
SRAM has been standing behind the brakes and some issues riders have been having that I’ll discuss in the next section. They will send out replacement parts to a local bike shop, no questions asked.
The Bad
No split lever clamp in the 2005 version
The 2005 model has a single piece clamp. The split clamp makes it super easy when dealing with bar changes or changing your control setup. The 2004 model has a split clamp and this feature was returned in the 2006 version.
Suspect fittings
The hose fittings that come with the Juicy do not seem to be the highest quality. When shortening hoses or changing hoses be very careful when tightening and loosening the fittings. I’ve heard that the small parts that come with the Goodridge hoses are much nicer, but also fairly expensive
Potential shuddering
I experienced only mild shuddering under very light braking effort with the polygon rotors. I experienced no shudder with Galfer rotors. There is a lot of buzz on the forums of a shuddering problem with older Juicy 7s. It seems to be tied to the rotors. The earliest versions came with a wavy rotor that had serious shuddering problems. The polygon rotor that I have has been hit for miss for a lot of riders. Avid has been sending round Clean Sweep rotors as warranty replacements for shuddering.
SRAM said that using the brakes aggressively out of the box without proper bedding in procedure can cause the pads overheat and to glaze prematurely and not mesh with the rotor correctly. This can lead to shudder and poor performance.
Noise
These brake do squeal some when really wet. They tend to quiet down after some braking but at the beginning of a wet ride they can be loud. This criticism is not limited to Avid as many disc brakes squeal in wet conditions. I’ve read of others having similar noise with the C4 pad. The Avid B4 supposedly is better in wet conditions.
Rotor durability
Out of the box they were warped slightly and on one of my first rides on the brakes I tweaked the rear rotor badly enough that I couldn’t fix it. Since then, I’ve tried some Galfer rotors and they’re are a bit thicker than the rotors that came with the brakes. While the power of the stock polygon rotor is comparable with the aftermarket rotor, I was more impressed with the durability of the Galfer rotor under real world use.
Pad life
While the stock pads are strong, they don’t seem to be lasting as long as I’d hoped. They have glazed over sooner than expected, and power has been compromised some. I sanded them with 400grit paper and brought back some of the power.
Non IS specific form factor
You will need an adapter if you have an international standard (IS) mount on your front fork. Some manufacturers make post mount and IS mount brakes, but Avid uses an adapter for IS mounts. The rear brake also uses an adaptor to mount to an IS rear bracket. This creates unnecessary weight and another bolt to come loose. SRAM says that producing one type of caliper reduces manufacturing costs and is easier for their dealers to stock one style as opposed to multiple form factors.
Weight
If you’re looking for lightweight brakes, the Juicy 7s are not weight weenie specials, although SRAM released a carbon version of the Juicy for 2006. To be fair, the Juicy 7 is marketed to several types of riding types, ranging from xc to trail / freeride, and even downhill. Lighter brakes like the Marta SL tend to be seen in XC for the most part.
Reliance on a pad retention clip
The Juicy 7 pads require the use of a spring clip. Pad installation and removal is fairly straight forward but the clip is just another piece that can get lost or broken. Sometimes the fork leg on the front brake gets in the way during pad installation and I have to loosen the caliper in order to rotate it away from the fork leg. I’d prefer to see some sort of magnetic mounting system.
Reach adjustment screw location
When using twist shifters, access to the reach adjustment screw is blocked. The levers have to be rotated to access the screw. With trigger shifters the screw is accessible.
Looks
It might just be me, but the 2005 Juicy 7s aren’t as sharp-looking as some of the other brake systems out there. While I like affordable equipment, I also appreciate a polished look to the stuff I run on my bike.
Scoring
First impressions: 7/10. Out of the box, the Juicy 7s didn’t ‘wow’ me like the Magura Martas did. I was impressed with the overall ‘feel’ of the lever out of the box but, given Avid’s manufacturing prowess and in-house expertise, I still think they can polish up the looks.
Performance: 38/40. The brakes are strong, have wonderful modulation, and are very adjustable. They are perfect for the finicky rider who wants things set just right. The adjustability and modulation alone sold me on these brakes.
Durability: 12/20. I had rotor issues and felt the stock brake pads could have had a little more life in them.
Pricing: 17/20. I’d consider the Juicy 7 to be performance level disc brakes. Compared to others in the class, the Juicy 7 is priced competitively. The performance of these brakes for the dollar is incredible in my opinion.
Wild Card: 8/10. I was impressed with SRAM’s customer service as well as their commitment to providing technical documentation for their products.
Overall: 82/100.
Conclusion
I like these brakes a lot. The modulation capabilities impress me every time I use them and, for me, the feel is as nice as well adjusted v-brakes. Additionally, I don’t understand why more brake manufacturers aren’t providing the option for lever engagement adjustment — in my opinion, this capability is absolutely critical and it’s something the Juicy 7 delivers on.
The other great feature with these brakes is the installation and adjustment of the calipers: All you need is an allen wrench and a few seconds. Bleeding is straight forward and SRAM has commendable customer service. While the weight is not as light as I wish for, their performance and adjustability far outweigh (pardon the pun) this concern.
Other reviews
1. Posted by Ryan | 2:19 pm, 30 January 2006
Great write up!
If you do experience shuttering and squealing noise like I did, Galfer pads have a good chance of solving this problem.