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	<title>Comments on: Keeping the trails running, or Are mountain bikers really as lazy as it seems?</title>
	<link>http://www.thebikinghub.com/mtb/keeping-the-trails-running-or-are-mountain-bikers-really-as-lazy-as-it-seems/</link>
	<description>Mountain bike news, reviews, and original features</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
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 		<title>Comment on Keeping the trails running, or Are mountain bikers really as lazy as it seems? by: Madmtnbiker</title>
		<link>http://www.thebikinghub.com/mtb/keeping-the-trails-running-or-are-mountain-bikers-really-as-lazy-as-it-seems/#comment-27162</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thebikinghub.com/mtb/keeping-the-trails-running-or-are-mountain-bikers-really-as-lazy-as-it-seems/#comment-27162</guid>
					<description>I agree with you about people using the trails and not doing anything to help in return. We have a 10 mile local trail  and we got about 10 people in  our group.Some of them don't help much eather .
The thing that get me the most is when you meet people on the trail and they say {You know you should put in this or that}But they wont show up and help .
I have been at this for 10 years we started with 2.5 miles of trail and now have 10 mile so our little group has done some work.
Mostly all you can  do is pat yourself on the back and ride ON
Ps Keep out the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I agree with you about people using the trails and not doing anything to help in return. We have a 10 mile local trail  and we got about 10 people in  our group.Some of them don&#8217;t help much eather .<br />
The thing that get me the most is when you meet people on the trail and they say {You know you should put in this or that}But they wont show up and help .<br />
I have been at this for 10 years we started with 2.5 miles of trail and now have 10 mile so our little group has done some work.<br />
Mostly all you can  do is pat yourself on the back and ride ON<br />
Ps Keep out the good work.
</p>
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 		<title>Comment on Keeping the trails running, or Are mountain bikers really as lazy as it seems? by: Cory</title>
		<link>http://www.thebikinghub.com/mtb/keeping-the-trails-running-or-are-mountain-bikers-really-as-lazy-as-it-seems/#comment-26131</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thebikinghub.com/mtb/keeping-the-trails-running-or-are-mountain-bikers-really-as-lazy-as-it-seems/#comment-26131</guid>
					<description>Ok, this is a lot overdue, but I figured I'd respond to 'Trailcarver's comments.

First, you talk about the 'simple solution' being a per-use fee or a season's pass. For my local spot, you've taken a complex series of economic and leisure activities and piled them into a single category, expecting everyone to play by rules imposed by the responsible governmental body. At the spot in question, a fee-based system won't work because there are too many publicly-accessible points and it would be cost-prohibitive. I might agree with you on this point and, theoretically-speaking, I &lt;em&gt;might&lt;/em&gt; have pursued said option with the people who &lt;em&gt;could&lt;/em&gt; have made it happen but, then again, I've been whining the entire time I've been writing this.

Second, I'm not concerned about 'freeloaders'. These type of people never do anything that benefits anybody but themselves. I'm not trying to change these people's minds because they'll never actually 'get it'. I'm more disappointed with the people who ride local trail networks every single day and then bawl about scraping up x dollars for their local advocacy group. And you know they're all on $5000 sleds...

Finally, Trailcarver, if you aren't interested in my little rant, save your words for somebody else who actually thinks you have something useful to say. You might think highly of your idealized little solution and heap scorn on the 'pinkos' who are skeptics about your plan, but it does nothing in a complex real-world scenario when you're dealing with land managers, loggers, hikers, environmentalists, dirt bikers, 4x4s, dog walkers, and everybody else who uses forested land.

People seem to think that trail builders have ample amounts of free time, heading up into the bush whenever they feel like it to carve sweet lines out of nothing. The reality, of course, is totally different: most builders I know have full-time jobs, families, homes, cars, and all that extra stuff that makes living in our part of the world awesome. What we do is make time and squeeze out this or that project so everybody can ride good stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ok, this is a lot overdue, but I figured I&#8217;d respond to &#8216;Trailcarver&#8217;s comments.</p>
	<p>First, you talk about the &#8217;simple solution&#8217; being a per-use fee or a season&#8217;s pass. For my local spot, you&#8217;ve taken a complex series of economic and leisure activities and piled them into a single category, expecting everyone to play by rules imposed by the responsible governmental body. At the spot in question, a fee-based system won&#8217;t work because there are too many publicly-accessible points and it would be cost-prohibitive. I might agree with you on this point and, theoretically-speaking, I <em>might</em> have pursued said option with the people who <em>could</em> have made it happen but, then again, I&#8217;ve been whining the entire time I&#8217;ve been writing this.</p>
	<p>Second, I&#8217;m not concerned about &#8216;freeloaders&#8217;. These type of people never do anything that benefits anybody but themselves. I&#8217;m not trying to change these people&#8217;s minds because they&#8217;ll never actually &#8216;get it&#8217;. I&#8217;m more disappointed with the people who ride local trail networks every single day and then bawl about scraping up x dollars for their local advocacy group. And you know they&#8217;re all on $5000 sleds&#8230;</p>
	<p>Finally, Trailcarver, if you aren&#8217;t interested in my little rant, save your words for somebody else who actually thinks you have something useful to say. You might think highly of your idealized little solution and heap scorn on the &#8216;pinkos&#8217; who are skeptics about your plan, but it does nothing in a complex real-world scenario when you&#8217;re dealing with land managers, loggers, hikers, environmentalists, dirt bikers, 4&#215;4s, dog walkers, and everybody else who uses forested land.</p>
	<p>People seem to think that trail builders have ample amounts of free time, heading up into the bush whenever they feel like it to carve sweet lines out of nothing. The reality, of course, is totally different: most builders I know have full-time jobs, families, homes, cars, and all that extra stuff that makes living in our part of the world awesome. What we do is make time and squeeze out this or that project so everybody can ride good stuff.
</p>
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 		<title>Comment on Keeping the trails running, or Are mountain bikers really as lazy as it seems? by: Trailcarver</title>
		<link>http://www.thebikinghub.com/mtb/keeping-the-trails-running-or-are-mountain-bikers-really-as-lazy-as-it-seems/#comment-13213</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 10:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thebikinghub.com/mtb/keeping-the-trails-running-or-are-mountain-bikers-really-as-lazy-as-it-seems/#comment-13213</guid>
					<description>This is the economic phenomenon known as tragedy of the commons. There's a simple solution: charge a per use or season fee for riders and hikers, if the lands are state property. Charge more for bikers because they do more damage (I'm a rider, and yes, I admit it!). Riders who ride while conditions are still muddy can do so, but may be charged extra for it.

Finally, enforce extremely harsh financial penalties for shirkers. Passes can be sold/distributed at bikeshops, through bike clubs, and by rangers. Use the funds to hire minimum wage drones or prisoners to build the trail. This still allows good folks like you to help if you want. But more importantly, it preserves trails.

And give me a break with the whining about freeloaders. What the heck do you expect? Most people are ungrateful bastards. I may be one of them. I have very little time, so I'd rather ride than build trails. So I donate way more than my fair share to the parks commission and I also have a season pass for my local trail. I'm very glad there are folks like you, though, and I'm willing to pay financially but would prefer to avoid the time expense. This may all make way too much sense, so I'm sure a lot of pinko's out there will debate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is the economic phenomenon known as tragedy of the commons. There&#8217;s a simple solution: charge a per use or season fee for riders and hikers, if the lands are state property. Charge more for bikers because they do more damage (I&#8217;m a rider, and yes, I admit it!). Riders who ride while conditions are still muddy can do so, but may be charged extra for it.</p>
	<p>Finally, enforce extremely harsh financial penalties for shirkers. Passes can be sold/distributed at bikeshops, through bike clubs, and by rangers. Use the funds to hire minimum wage drones or prisoners to build the trail. This still allows good folks like you to help if you want. But more importantly, it preserves trails.</p>
	<p>And give me a break with the whining about freeloaders. What the heck do you expect? Most people are ungrateful bastards. I may be one of them. I have very little time, so I&#8217;d rather ride than build trails. So I donate way more than my fair share to the parks commission and I also have a season pass for my local trail. I&#8217;m very glad there are folks like you, though, and I&#8217;m willing to pay financially but would prefer to avoid the time expense. This may all make way too much sense, so I&#8217;m sure a lot of pinko&#8217;s out there will debate it.
</p>
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 		<title>Comment on Keeping the trails running, or Are mountain bikers really as lazy as it seems? by: BearSquirrel</title>
		<link>http://www.thebikinghub.com/mtb/keeping-the-trails-running-or-are-mountain-bikers-really-as-lazy-as-it-seems/#comment-11854</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thebikinghub.com/mtb/keeping-the-trails-running-or-are-mountain-bikers-really-as-lazy-as-it-seems/#comment-11854</guid>
					<description>You're right.  I also do trail maintenance.  I have to admit that I enjoy it to some degree.  But there comes a point when you start looking around and seeing all the people who ride but do not participate.  

The WORST people are the people who RIDE when you are out doing a well advertised maintenance session.  Those are the times when you want to charge a toll for passing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You&#8217;re right.  I also do trail maintenance.  I have to admit that I enjoy it to some degree.  But there comes a point when you start looking around and seeing all the people who ride but do not participate.  </p>
	<p>The WORST people are the people who RIDE when you are out doing a well advertised maintenance session.  Those are the times when you want to charge a toll for passing.
</p>
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